Moira and Dolomit

Conversation with Jessica and Leonid.

http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com

Leonid, Your comments about young breeder Darya "you bought two horses yesterday" is unacceptable and not polite! There is no Akhal Teke community. That`s what I understand people are trying to build here. Without respect and understanding from one member to another it will not be possible. We bought "our horses yesterday" but me may have more potential with the help of professional trainers to show our horses today. There is no Akhal Teke community that`s why breed suffers because many can not overcome their personal issues and start training the horses for the serious shows. And I thought experienced breeder should just be happy so we are the young generation is still interested in Akhal Teke horses and should support our passion for it because we are spending our hard earned money on buying, maintaining and trying to show Akhal Tekes. Noone yet gave me a trained horse and said, go head and take it to the show. I have to back my own horses that`s how far away I am from it. But I still backed Jessica`s Paikhas and I will back Tito`s horses because people have to see Akhal Tekes here in Florida. I am backing the horses because I have no choice and I will not appriciate someone comments that I own horses for two days...
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comment posted by Jessica 10/16/2006 09:33:16 AM
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I think it is better to discuss openly suggestions for improvement, as long as we have an open discussion going on everything can only get better. In order to find better solutions we will have to define the past and the present. Define the problem and work towards solutions. The wider range of personalities and experiences the better. There are seniors and juniors and rookies in this forum, I base it on number of years "in service" with this breed. I think it is good that also the rookies are listened to as it is interesting to see how a rookie experience coming into this breed in the 21st century. Dasha, no one will give you anything more than you ask for, there are trained Tekes for sale that can go directly into the show ring. When you bought Paikhas from us we suggested her as you wanted a young horse you could work with from scratch. As you mentioned that you were not that an experienced rider we selected for you a young mare with an easy going temperament that we had found exceptionally easy to work with, she was backed in Sweden as a two-year-old and lost I would say four months of training due to her exportation from Sweden and importation to the USA. It is great to know that you have decided to train and show your Tekes in Florida. You have chosen to buy a three- year- old that you by now has had in traning for 1.5 years. Training horses for the discipline you have chosen to show in, dressage, take many years and there are no short cuts. It's great to know that you work with a trainer and we have never denied you out support or help in any matters. The two rescues you saved from the stud farm in Texas will need a lot of time to recover from years of starvation and abuse. Moira was backed by me in your place (this I call support), she was lame and emancipated at that time as she had recently arrived, I backed her as I has promised to do to check if she had been under rider before which she obviously had. I then recommended you to give her all the time she needed to recover. The seven-year-old halter broken stallion has lost 5 to 4 years of training and I can guess it will be quite a challenge to get him trained to show in dressage. However, there are trained Tekes for most disciplines for sale so there is no need real for anyone to start of with green or rescued horses in this country. I do not agree with your "no one sold me" argumentation. What I do admire about you Dasha and think is almost unique is that you have decided to show and not to breed Tekes. Let me know when you will enter your first Teke in a show here in Florida and we will be there with the big supporter team.
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comment posted by shael10/16/2006 09:47:52 AMHomepage: http://shael-teke.ru/
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Даша, я про Ивана, а Вы про Фому. Прочитайте последний пост Дарьи, который просто оскорбителен для россиян и для тех усилий, благодаря которым мы создавали МААК. В итоге, сегодня МААК не работает, но в том числе и благодаря нашим зарубежным коллегам, пребывающим в пассивности. Даша, Вы свои деньги тратите для своей души или бизнеса и я не собираюсь их считать. Если бы ко мне пришёл Мастер уровня Филатова, то я, безусловно бы дал ему лошадь в работу. Приходите к нам и докажите, что Вы мастер такого уровня. Мы приветствуем любые усилия, направленные на продвижение текинцев. Видимо я ни когда не смогу вежливо выслушивать менторский тон дилетантов. Разведение это конечно не космические технологии, но этому делу мы отдаём свою жизнь, а не только деньги. А если уж взялись за заводскую деятельность, то хотя бы изучите предмет на столько глубоко насколько это возможно. Таже Джессика провела не мало времени в России, да и начинала не с нуля в голове. Шамборант как то рассказал анекдот: "Художник устороил премьеру просмотра своей картины. Пригласил своих друзей, среди которых был сапожник. Картина была портретом во весь рост. Его друг-сапожник указал своему другу-художнику на ошибки в изображении сапог и художник взял кисть и тут же исправил недостатки. Но сапожник не успокоился и указал на ошибки в изображении лица на портрете. Здесь художник резко оборвал его словами: "Выше сапога не лезь"". Хочешь быть заводчиком, то хотя бы оглядись вокруг, покушай этого хлеба-соли, заработай авторитет в обществе, а тогда мы послушаем как надо жить лучше. Даша, не стоит обижаться, луше переведите на английский если не трудно.
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comment posted by Dasha Cole10/16/2006 11:45:25 AMHomepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com/
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Jessica Thank you for your comments. I have no complains as you know about Paikhas - I bought her unbroke. And I am very happy with her. She does have a thrown cicle but she will be bred this year as a recomendation of the vet. We will let you know shen she goes into her first show. Would love to have you! Please let me know who has any seriousely trained AT horses for sale at this moment? I am not talking just broke. For the breeding part we do have a breeding farm set up for the next season. We have Dolomit availabe for stud services as well as we are getting paperwork finalized for another MAAK approved stallion who has off spring on the ground. We will be offereing two stallions for the breeding season of 2007 here in Sarasota. Everyone welcome! We will breed to part breds as it seems so far most of the reservations arive from non-AT owners. All the recomendations for breeding will be done by Tito Pontecorvo for pure bred horses. If anyone has a desire to find out what they horse will look like to avoid breeding mistakes I understand from Tito`s wife Natasha this information will be avilable soon. As to Dolomit and Moira - they are both great horses demonstrating top class of breeding in Akhal Tekes. Dolomit is under the saddle at the trout, shows wonderfull temper. Moira is under the saddle at the trout too. Both horses are sound working horses and doing great. Pictures of Dolomit and Moira will be on my blog soon under the saddle. It was a drought in Texas this year and we have seen it since we were there. There is nothing you can do with 110F in the pastures and no rain for the grass. Leonid I would take your word on top class training. Maybe I can show something in a few years. My trainer who is a top class retired dressage master thinks that I have the potential. Wonderfull part is that we have our own farm, we are close to famous Siesta Key and Sarasota city where according to statistics every 6th household is a millionaire. We will live we will see. Leonid I will not be able to translate the blog since I am leaving to run my advertising compaign in Teneriffe and South Africa tonight and will be back only next week by Friday. Maybe Darya or Maria can help? Well, let`s stay freinds, do not abuse the experiece and the honour of old breeders but also keep educating the youngsters like us and hopefully we can move the breed forward during this century.

Last day before trip!

Yes, I am very excited to see my girfreinds and talk about a new promotion campaign. It will be exciting! We will spend the whole day in the spa. It will be strange for me to be away from my horses.
We had some basic riding going this week-end, I rode Tiki and Riki and My neighbour Mike has brought his show Morgan Tori. We had a really good time following each other and working on the different speeds for the gaits.
I didn`t go to train polo horses this week since I was very busy with my rela estate. I can`t wait to get back into polo once I return from the trip. My main sport is dressage but polo makes me a better rider and I can see progress in my riding much faster.

My conversation with Leonid.

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comment posted by Dasha Cole10/13/2006 10:18:41 PMHomepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com
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Hello All! Here is the bottom level questions I would like to receive the answers for. 1. Who is the final authority to grade the stock? 2. Who will be a final register of pure bred Akhal Tekes if there is disagreemnt with existing MAAK/VNIIK? How can we improve existing communication Russia-America? I am willing to translate if Russians would like to talk... 3. How to approve the stallions for breeding if noone will make it here our way in America in the next two years? 4. What are the specific breeding goals in Russia which can improve the breed usability in the West? We can not selll the horse of the fine ribs and narrow chests - it`s good for show but we need it for jumping, ropping, rodeo and dressage, not to talk about the eventing and endurance... 5. What are we looking in the breed? Do we want another Thorughbred or Quorter Horse? How can we combine the original type of Akhal Teke with the perseption of Western/Europian sport horse breeders? Please help me out because I am here to learn. Common Breeders, give us a slack and let me know what you think. Dasha
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comment posted by shael10/14/2006 02:58:25 AMHomepage: http://shael-teke.ru
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Постораюсь ответить по русски. 1. Who is the final authority to grade the stock? Генеральная Племенная Книга находится во ВНИИКе в России. Зарегистрировать молодняк можно и в любой национальной Книге, имеющей Договор о сотрудничестве с ВНИИКом. 2. Who will be a final register of pure bred Akhal Tekes if there is disagreemnt with existing MAAK/VNIIK? How can we improve existing communication Russia-America? I am willing to translate if Russians would like to talk... Смотрите ответ на первый вопрос. В конечном итоге вся информация по всему объёму породы должна собираться Генеральную Племенную Книгу. Оптимизация связи это создание региональных Племенных Книг, работающих, как составные части Генеральной Книги. 3. How to approve the stallions for breeding if noone will make it here our way in America in the next two years? Это полная ерунда и абсолютная чушь. Каждый заводчик сам принимает решение об использовании того или инного жеребца. Существует только один критерий - чистокровность!!! 4. What are the specific breeding goals in Russia which can improve the breed usability in the West? We can not selll the horse of the fine ribs and narrow chests - it`s good for show but we need it for jumping, ropping, rodeo and dressage, not to talk about the eventing and endurance... Такого вопроса просто не существует. Нет такой Селекционной Программы, которой бы российские заводчики слепо подчинялись, как солдаты. Возможно это мечта ВНИИКа, но не действительность. Признаться не понимаю на каком основании Вы, Даша, делаете выводы о субтильности и узкогрудости лошадей российской селекции. Во первых, нет такого единообразия, каждый завод производит собственную селекцию на основании собственных вкусов и взглядов. Например средние промеры маточного состава нашего конного завода среди 29 кобыл 159 - 186,2 - 19,5. Если Вы делаете такие выводы из увиденных в Америке лошадей, то их отобрали и купили американцы на основании собственных взглядов и вкусов. А скорее всего, погнавшись за дешевизной. Выводы можно делать тогда, когда Вы посетите ведущие конные заводы России и даже в этом случае Вы заметите разницу в стиле и качестве лошадей разных хозяйств. 5. What are we looking in the breed? Do we want another Thorughbred or Quorter Horse? How can we combine the original type of Akhal Teke with the perseption of Western/Europian sport horse breeders? Существует древний селекционный принцип разведения ахалтекинских лошадей, рождённый в Парфии, Мидии, Бактрии, унаследованный туркменами и переданный нам Шамборантом. Звучит он так: "Был бы кровный конь, да первый приз". Полнее и сказать нечего. Любой селекционер найдёт здесь суть разведения ахалтекинской породы лошадей. Нельзя приходить к породе с чуждыми ей, но близкими Вам принципами разведения. Получиться чушь. Надо приходить в породу и поддерживать существующие традиции, созданные тысячелетиями. При этом каждый стремиться к созданию собственного подчерка, собственного стиля.
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comment posted by Dasha Cole10/14/2006 09:33:15 AMHomepage: http://www.akhalteke.homestead.com
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Translation 1.General Studbook is located in VNIIK in Russia. Young stock can be registered in any national studbook which has cooperation agreement with VNIIK. 2. Same as the answer for the first question. All information about the volume of the breed has to be compiled in general Studbook. In order to improve communication regional/sub stud books has to be created to operate as parts of General Studbook. 3.This is complete nonsense. Every breeder decides to use the one or another breeding stallion in his breeding program. There is one criterion for selection - pure bred! 4.There is no such a task in existence. There is no Breeding Program in place which has to be blindly followed by Russian breeders like soldiers. Possibly it’s the dream of VNIIK but not the reality. To admit the fact I don’t quite understand how you, Dasha can make statements about fine ribbed and narrow chested horses bred by Russian breeders. It`s not a one sided approach, every breeding farm is implementing it`s own breeding program based on it`s own taste and vision. For example, average measurements of 29 broodmares of our breeding plant are 159-186.2-19,5. If you make such a conclusions, based on the horses you have seen in America – those horses were chosen and bought by Americans based on their own taste and vision. More likely, low price was the factor. Conclusions can be made only after you visit leading breeding plants in Russia and even in this case you will see the difference in style and the quality of the horses bred by different plants. 5.There is an ancient breeding principle of breeding Akhal Teke horses. This principle originated in Parfia, Massagetae and Bacteria, inherited by Turkmenians and passed to us by Shamborat. It states the following: “Would of being a pure bred horse to win the race (prize)” (Russians help with better translation, I need to go feeding!). Can`t say more. Any breeder will find in this their goal for breeding Akhal Teke horses. You can not approach the breed with estranged for breed but acceptable to you breeding goals. Nonsense. It`s necessary to support existing traditions maintained by thousands of years. On top of that every breeder is determined to create his own signature and his own style of breeding

Girs gone wild!

Dolomit was showing off his beatifull gaits

Pictures of the Saturday

I had the full day today to work with the horses so here is some pictures. Enjoy!

Going to Teneriffe! Thought about training horses and new pictures.

Well I am actually going for the vacation. My and my girl friends from Moscow are taking off before Ira will finally commit to the married life. Girls week off.

Everyone on the farm is doing pretty good. Dolomit started to move in training and now is already troutting under the saddle.

Kate and Mike Bonda were helping me with the vacines this summer and we are finishing up tomorrow.

Traing system

I decided to follow up Kate`s advise and I am training everyone on the ground to what I hope to see under the saddle. I start training with simple gaits such walk, trout and canter. I teach all my horses to stand quite on the shoulder of the circle. That`s where it`s important to not let them in and I come to them when I think they deserve the pet on the shoulder.

Horses are very sensitive creatures and do respond good to touch. Punishment such as striking the chain on the lounge line is used rather to correct the gait. My whip almost never touches the horses since all of them such a greta students.

Walk - After horse stands quitely on the circle I start asking to move forward. If the horse starts out cantering or trouting I let them trout and watch until they naturally slow down and then I ask for a walk again. Woooo - Walk - Woooo is my first exercise. When horse stops on the sound release the pressure and pet on the shoulder. I come to the horse his job is to stand on the circle. Here is the picture of Riky who could not stand happily and wanted to move forward. He is such a fun little guy even though he is not an Akhal Teke.

Trout - After the horse steps happily on the circle and stops on command. I start asking for trout. In case if you have lazy horse I crack the whip in the ground and push horse forward. If it breaks to canter I wait and slowly ask for trout. Horse should go off to trout on the voice command. If it does not the correction is needed. If it does let to trout and say what a good girl/boy. Horses pick on the intonation and really can separate the greeting from swear.

Canter - I would like to my horse to go into canter from a slower trout. I don`t want my horse to either fast trout and then canter. I teach my horses from the beginning to break into the canter with the crack of the whip within a few strides if not immediately and I do not allow my horses fast trotting. They are only learning what I am teaching them. And I want them to do the same things under the saddle.

Ground manners are important and I will jerk the chain on the nose if the horse forgot how to stand quite. If horse figures out that he/she is stronger I may loose the battle.

What are we working on:

risks - Natural forward mover and loves to "crazy horse" canter on the lounge line. He could not stand quite and had shaky out of balance inconsistent trout. He would not go into the canter and will fast trout.

He picked up right off how to stand and move into nice medium walk and slow light trout. We worked today - sloe trout - whip crack - slow canter. It worked really well under the saddle. He responded to the voice command and went into the canter right off. We still have to polish the right side bit left is good.

We tried some lateral movement - backing and to the side. He is a such a quick learner.

Under the saddle we practice. Sit trout without the stirrups and small circles. Then we practice slow trout medium trout, slow canter both directions. We didn`t practice extended trout under the saddle but I pushed him on the lounge time with the command extend. Risks knows by now walk - faster - easy - extend on walk and trout. He picked up the difference with the words right off. Once he knows what I am communicating to him we will tak verbal part out and use more small signals.

Tikki

Natural lasy horse needs to pushed. Working on the lounge line with the transition walk to trout on the first signal. Canter nice and slow on both directions. Had the summer off so slowly bringing her back. Tiki has lovely temper and is working good for 4 - year old.

Now we concentrate on the consistent trout and canter. I can not ask for different speeds yet because she gets easily bored and fisty. So far so good. Some collection work was done last year and she will go collected on the trout.

Walk is horrible and we practise more forward walk and depper step. Turning is still somethines the issue but getting better.

Moira

Works with the trainer on the walk and trout. Straight lines. Forward mover likes to work but will give some trouble sometimes. Hard head... but I love her.

With me on the lounge line walk, trout canter with no resistance. Has problem going on the trout and canter to the right and I have to push her forward.

Still working on the ties, bath, picking the feet and being in general a good horse. Leads fine and has developed a lot of trust. I have to work more on the consistency of her trout and building up the back musles.

Dolomit

Will test you and your skills for sure! If I ask him he will do anything for me. First he was taking off with the lounge line but we developed love and admiration for each other. Me trhough the grain and he did trough his wonderfully character.

Dolomit is a pet which could be a Big Baby but we work on that part. Dolomit job is walk and trout on the loune line. Now he mixes up everything but is willing to please. On the saddle trainer brought up to the trout.

You have to stay on him not pushing but watching so he does not slack. He wants to be pet and babysitted all the time. Forward mover just need to knwo how to ask. Don`t have much fears left and is cold with everyone.

Nikki

Baby Nikki just getting her grounds manner. Cross ties and was stall broke. Pickes up legs and bathes. She grows fast!